Beyond the Lanes: The Kaitlin Sandeno Journey

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (00:00.746)
Welcome to the Move the Chains podcast. I’m your host Jason Jacobi here with my cohost Mark Boyer. Sometimes we go by salt and pepper, but. Exactly, but we have a special one for you today and a fellow Trojan for Mark. So this is quite exciting for us, Kaitlin Sandeno. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

Mark Boyer (00:08.054)
Salt and pepper. Spice of life. Right? Yeah, we do.

Mark Boyer (00:18.813)
Yeah!

Kaitlin Sandeno (00:26.993)
Thanks guys, I’m excited to be with you both.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (00:30.326)
Well, we’re really on it.

Mark Boyer (00:32.106)
Hey, Jay, don’t worry if you kind of fade out during the deal because you got two SC alums here, man. So you may not be able to hang. All right. OK, there we go.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (00:36.742)
I know. That’s all right. I’m a Trojan at heart. My sister went there, so I grew up a Trojan fan. So if you guys can adopt me for the day, then I think we’re all set there. Yes, exactly. I’m honored. I’m honored to be here with the two of you. But Kaitlin, so all right, so former competition swimmer, Olympic gold medalist on top of silvers and bronzes as well.

Kaitlin Sandeno (00:40.013)
Yes.

Mark Boyer (00:46.144)
Right on. Yeah, there we go for the day.

Kaitlin Sandeno (00:48.183)
Trojan.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:03.506)
World champion, former world record holder, four by 200, freestyle, relay, incredible, incredible accomplishments. Again, thanks for being here. But yeah, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your past? Obviously you grew up El Toro High School, Mission Viejo area, right? So how did your love of swimming start?

Mark Boyer (01:08.353)
it out.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:26.415)
Well, you know, I was a water baby from the start couldn’t even get me out of the bathtub. And I have two older sisters with a pretty good age difference between us of 11 and 13 years. So I was going to my first swim meet like a week into this world because my sister had a swim meet and I was just pool side with my mom got my first sunburn at a young age at my first you know, my sister’s swim meets and just being the younger sister that was just being dragged to everything.

But really it was the love for the summer league program. I think the summer league sports for swimming are just so important because it’s that first real kind of touch in the pool and the taste of the sport and really feeling out if you have talent. You know, swimming is not for everybody. It is a challenging sport, but what swimming is good for everybody, it’s a life skill. So if you fall in a lake, if you fall out of a boat, if you’re at the beach, if you’re at a birthday party with a pool, and if you’re a child or if you fall in the pool, swimming’s a life skill.

So I think, you know, really, especially where we’re from in Southern California, I think being on a swim team is a little bit more common. But when you go into other, you know, neck of the woods that don’t have the weather that we have or the pool accessibility that we have or, you know, the means to be on a swim team, I just can’t stress enough the importance of just learning how to swim. You know, so I think that’s where swimming differs from other sports. I mean, obviously being a football player is an incredible sport and you have to be an incredible athlete to do it, but it’s not a life skill.

you know, being a swimmer that is a life skill. But having said that, you know, I was a huge tomboy. My parents put me in everything. I love sports. I did every sport you can imagine. Took a liking to soccer and cross country the most.

Mark Boyer (02:56.577)
Thank you.

Kaitlin Sandeno (03:04.351)
I’d actually say swimming was maybe like my third favorite. I love soccer. I really that was that was my jam. But I was pretty petite and short and skinny for my age. And I was also very aggressive. And I just found myself on the ground a lot and getting hurt a lot. And my swim coaches were like, Well, maybe we should go a little bit easier on the soccer.

Um, my, my swim coaches saw my talent and they were a little bit more vocal than I would say my soccer coaches, I was probably just as good at soccer, um, if not like the same, um, like kind of just level wise. Uh, but it was my swim coaches that really instilled their belief in me and, and approached myself and my parents, you know, telling them that I think she could be really great as she focused on one sport. So I did that in junior high and then things kind of took off from there.

Mark Boyer (03:52.841)
Hmm. Oh. Wow. So you had older sisters that were swimmers. Your parents, did they have a background in swimming? How’d you guys, the girls get into swimming?

Kaitlin Sandeno (03:59.155)
know, my mom was a figure skater. My dad went to Northern Arizona University and he was the generation where he was just intramural sports and played it for his fraternity. And when I go to some of his frat boy gatherings, they tell me how fast and how strong my dad was. So I feel like that’s where some of my genes came from. I’m pretty decent figure skater, but nothing like my mom was. But yeah, I wouldn’t say like, you know, they weren’t playing in college and they didn’t have an athletic

career to that sort. And my sisters did summer league and then in high school, they chose cheerleading and drill team. So a little bit different routes there, but to each their own, their calling. And I would just say like my parents have always been just big, um, advocators for sports to get them in something, keep them out of trouble, burn their energy. I had a ton of energy.

Mark Boyer (04:36.59)
Yeah, I love it.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (04:37.174)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (04:50.063)
And also because of our age difference, it wasn’t like I was growing up really close to a sibling. So being on a team kind of gave me like my playmates and the play dates and things to that degree. So just being like within that community of sports is really important to my parents.

Mark Boyer (05:08.026)
That’s great. Yeah. I mean, it’s, uh, it’s cool. Your parents saw that display. I think that’s really important with sports. You know, um, I’ve got, you know, we have five, my, my wife and I have five children and all married now and now I got a bunch of grandkids and, um, you know, all of, uh, including Jason’s got a couple of them, but they’re, you know, just seeing just the other day, watching his oldest boy just be involved in sports and kind of active that way. I think there’s so many life lessons to learn from sports, you know, um, in

Kaitlin Sandeno (05:22.728)
Yes.

Mark Boyer (05:33.926)
in the ways to find your passion and what you like doing. Even if it ends up being you play a little bit and you don’t like it, then at least you know, there’s something else, right?

Kaitlin Sandeno (05:39.902)
Yeah.

Absolutely. I just think obviously being in a team sport, I think that provides a lot of social skills and skills that will adapt as adults into the workforce. But just being active like it’s funny because my I have two older sisters of the shared and my oldest sister has four boys. And her boys really didn’t do organized sports, but they’re either on a surfboard or on a skateboard every day or on a mountain bike, you know, so they’re in the less traditional sport, but they’re just active and they’re at the beach for like six hours and they come home and they’re just toasted their energies gone, you know,

Mark Boyer (06:01.422)
Yeah, we’re good. Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (06:12.477)
And obviously, I didn’t really grow up in the generation with like tons of gadgets and gadgets and electronics. But I mean, we obviously had Nintendo and that was like the generation when things started coming up, but that was not a part of our lifestyle at all. And I think I had a Game Boy just because we have long drives to soccer tournaments and swim meets are long. And that’s like the one time I would like play Game Boy. So just not having that technology distraction or interruptions and just getting kids in sports and…

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (06:19.708)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (06:39.495)
I mean, my husband and I don’t have children, but just, I just like to preach to parents like, and have them do multiple sports. Like I’m hearing these crazy stories of these parents that are so intense for one sport at a young age. It’s like, why? Like, what for? Like you’re gonna burn them out? Or it’s just, it’s to me, that’s really sad. Like I was talking to a good girlfriend who was a successful athlete herself and her husband was an Olympian. And she’s like, it’s just crazy. Like kids are like seven years old and they’re full-time sports with private coaches.

Mark Boyer (06:45.944)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (06:52.686)
Crazy.

Kaitlin Sandeno (07:07.171)
and doing other like, you know, multiple leagues within their sport. And it’s just like mind blowing to me. I’m like, well, I played soccer two days a week. I swam two days a week at a cross country a day. And whatever was on the weekend, it was for me, our soccer game. I was changing in the car from one sport to the other. You know, and I did that until eighth grade. And obviously it’s like that’s what worked for me. But I just really believe in that. And recently I posted on my social media a couple of different sports I did. And the mom’s like, thanks for sharing this. I think it’s so important for people to see like.

You didn’t just dedicate to one sport at a young age. I was like, no, I guess I was like a late start for that.

Mark Boyer (07:37.859)
Yeah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (07:42.751)
And lose.

Mark Boyer (07:42.766)
Preach it, I’m with you 100%. I mean, I think that in my generation going way back, I mean, we always, you played all sports. I mean, pretty much everything. And then, watching my kids and now the grandkids, I see that focus. And besides the financial services business here that we’re involved with, we’re financial, but I’m part owner of a gym, actually Fast Twitch here in Orange County. But we were talking about that and we see what happens is with athletes.

Kaitlin Sandeno (07:51.157)
What?

Mark Boyer (08:09.11)
when they just play one sport, one of the challenges there, and you’ll know this because you were swimming, right? When you just do the same motion over and over again all the time, your body gets out of balance, you’re prone to injuries, there’s lots of things that can happen. So I think that, like you’re talking about, well-rounded and getting, using different sports and different muscles in different sports, it really helps you build athleticism, which is really important. So I see kind of honestly, I think now you kind of see sort of a switch back, you see it slowly coming back to.

Kaitlin Sandeno (08:19.561)
Right.

Mark Boyer (08:37.782)
I’ve seen more kids, more parents putting in multiple sports. We’ll see if that plays out, but I think that’s, I agree with you 100%. That’s really important.

Kaitlin Sandeno (08:46.067)
They’re really good cross-training for each other too. It’s like my soccer helped my swimming helped my soccer. And like you said, that risk of repetition. And it’s like, swimming is a very repetitive sport as it is. And so to help the burnout, cause you see that so much too, you know, kids are just thriving as they’re so young and then they get to high school and they’re like, I’m so sick of this. I did so much as a kid and that’s really sad. And I saw this terrible stat the other day that, the percentage of kids that were enrolled in youth sports from the ages from six to 12

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (08:49.202)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (08:56.737)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (09:16.001)
37%. Like that was it was heartbreaking and you know, we have to fact check that you know, not quite sure where they got all that. They’re showing the decline in registration for that age. It’s like, what are they doing? Like, what are you doing? You don’t have to be great. Like you just need to be active. Like what are they doing after school?

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (09:19.118)
Wow.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (09:35.406)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Boyer (09:35.478)
Well, they’re playing games. A lot of them playing games on the TV, right? That’s their exercise. I don’t think it’s working. You know, child obesity is really super high now and you know, it’s just, it’s not a good trend. Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (09:45.43)
Now, let’s look at that correlation. Exactly.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (09:47.906)
Yeah. So, so Kaitlin, I got to ask, so, so speaking of moving from multi-sport to being a single sport athlete after eighth grade, do you think, so for parents out there maybe, or, or other athletes, like, so when do you think is a good time to kind of have that singular focus? Is it a single moment that you had, you were kind of like, oh yeah, like this is my, this is my thing, I think. And I’m just going to put, you know, a hundred percent effort into this and go after it.

Kaitlin Sandeno (10:17.791)
It’s a great question because really looking back, I wish I would have done multiple sports in high school. I tried out for the cross country team going into my freshman year and I made it, but it was really my coaches. They’re like, nah, we really don’t need you in that. Like my swim coaches are like, I think it’s time. You know, so that’s hard to say. And I think too, like you see like.

Mark Boyer (10:19.342)
That was good.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (10:32.304)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (10:37.587)
For boys sports, there’s like a great crossover between like basketball and football or baseball and football. It’s like, if the seasons allow it, I’d be like, go for it. But I think you get into these sports, these coaches that are pretty persistent on getting you into their sport full time. I think you have to let the body mature and develop and grow.

And I think too, like we changed so much. So how do you get to know what you’re good or what you like if you don’t try things? You know, and that’s even just goes with the sport of swimming. Like, you know, I was a brushstroker when I started but our coaches had us race everything.

And everyone’s like, Oh, why am I doing that? I’m not good at that. You never know until you try, you know, and then brush it became my worst stroke and then I was a distance freestyler and butterflyer, you know? So it’s just like, as you’re developing in your body change and you go from, you know, 12 years old and underweight and undersized, and then you go through puberty and you’re at your full strength, so much changes. So, um, got a long-winded answer to that. Jason is it’s hard to say.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (11:35.766)
No, I like it.

Kaitlin Sandeno (11:36.699)
no individual. And I do think your skill level speaks for itself too. Like, are you gonna make it to college sports? Are you gonna make it to the Olympics? You know, so then maybe you need to start a little bit. Are you gonna be pretty good and you could do multiple sports and do all multiple sports? You know, if you’re not gonna be at the LA 2028 Olympics, then

Mark Boyer (12:00.308)
No.

Kaitlin Sandeno (12:00.355)
you know, maybe it’s all for everyone, you know? So I just think that there’s a lot that’s a very deep rooted question.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (12:07.934)
Yeah, no, I like that. I think that’s a lot of people. I mean, I know a lot of athletes or parents that have athletes that try to force them into one thing when they’re young and maybe it’s not, you know, uh, a malicious intent. Obviously they want their kids to excel and the kid loves it and they want to be the best, but like you said, having that kind of cross sport, um, athleticism and being balanced or, you know, there’s a lot of correlation between.

Kaitlin Sandeno (12:28.831)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (12:32.214)
you know, lateral speed or, you know, agility that can actually translate into a lot of different things. So I really liked that answer. Thanks for, uh, for answering it so well. Um, but let’s, let’s get into, so let’s get into college. Okay. So El Toro high school focused on swimming was SC like always growing up in Southern California, right? It’s like USC or UCLA. Uh, so was it always me or were there other schools that were kind of vying for you at the time too?

Kaitlin Sandeno (12:57.787)
Yeah.

Yeah, it was always SD in the sense that I am very close with my family. And it was funny because I had a wonderful high school experience. I just swam but I was really involved in school as class president, you know, as Homecoming Queen, I made my first Olympic team in high school, you know, so I had success while I was in high school is going into I just finished my junior year of high school, made it that summer and then was going into my senior year. So I was like two weeks late to

Mark Boyer (13:16.884)
Bye.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (13:17.291)
home.

Kaitlin Sandeno (13:27.863)
senior year of high school because I was coming back from the Olympics. So things were a little severe, so surreal at that time. And I don’t feel like I really went through that phase where a lot of my fellow seniors do like I can’t wait to get out of here. I can’t wait to go to college. Like I for sure got senior I just was school. But like I got along so great with my parents. My sisters just lived down the way I had nephews at that time already. It was just like, I don’t really want to leave the nest like I’m really happy here, you know. And so SU was

It was very attractive to me for many reasons. But one of them was it was really close to home. And yeah, you mentioned the other Crosstown rival at UCLA, but they didn’t have a men’s program. And swimming is a very coed sport. And I train really well with men, they really pushed me and very competitive. So I knew I wanted to be in a coed on a coed team. And that does kind of weed out some teams too, because even if a program has a men’s and women’s program, they don’t always train together. So USC they did men and women train together. And I really liked that.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (14:04.823)
Thank you.

Mark Boyer (14:24.162)
Hmm, that’s huge.

Kaitlin Sandeno (14:26.047)
Um, at that time, I thought I would go into like broadcasting or wanted to be in journalism. So Annenberg school is so amazing at USC. Um, I liked that it was a private school and I, um, I really liked the coach. I knew the head coach there had an amazing reputation. He was actually one of the, um, head coaches for the Olympic team in 2000. So I got to be around him and his environment and his aura and train with him. Um, it was kind of.

It was like a legal early recruiting trip, just being on the Olympics, to see what he was like and to be in his presence. And I really like how he motivated me and how he spoke to the team. And then my club, so my club coach swam underneath the USC coach. So I knew the program, it would be similar. I just knew it was a good fit for me. He specialized in events. I swam. And so USC was pretty much a slam dunk for me, but I did take recruiting trips.

Mark Boyer (14:53.216)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (14:54.879)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (15:18.883)
I was blessed to basically go wherever I wanted to on a full ride scholarship. I was the top recruit in the nation that year. So it was a it was an amazing blessing to have. I always said, you know, joke that my parents love me no matter what for swimming, but they love me a little bit more knowing I was getting that full ride. So that financial burden off of them. And really, that was when I was in high school, like the goal that I gave myself was like, so I’m really fast, so you can go to college.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (15:36.924)
Ha ha ha!

Mark Boyer (15:37.078)
Hahaha.

Kaitlin Sandeno (15:48.027)
because I knew the financial situation that my parents were in, I wasn’t going to be able to go to USC without, you know, some scholarship. And so that was my motivation or my goal in high school was swim really fast and get a scholarship. And so, you know, amazing things happened trying to attain that goal. And that goal came true. And so, yeah, I went into SC as, you know, my freshman year as an Olympian already and my top recruits. There was some pressure going into that, but…

I handle that stuff well, but I was burdened with injuries as soon as I got there. So college is a little bit of a rough.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (16:18.559)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (16:23.422)
Oh, yeah. They had to be some. That’s that’s injuries. It’s part of, you know, part of sports, right, is managing your injuries. That’s tough because look at your situation. You’re at high school, right? And then you’re going to the Olympics as a 17 year old. I mean, and really did incredible. I mean, you did the bronze medal in the 800 freestyle meter freestyle event, fourth place in the 400 meter individual medley and sixth place in the 200 meter butterfly.

Kaitlin Sandeno (16:40.277)
Yeah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (16:44.182)
Metal.

Mark Boyer (16:52.878)
So there’s a lot of expectations probably going on for you going into SC. And then you just said it, you just nailed it, right? Talking about move the chains, you know, not all of a sudden, boom, you get sacked and you’re, you know, you’re, uh, you know, you’re second in, in 15 instead of first and, you know, or second and 10 or four, you know, I mean, you’re, you’re backed up. So how’d you handle those injuries? Kaitlin, what, how did, how did that, you know, with mentally, was that tough for you?

Kaitlin Sandeno (17:05.886)
Yes.

Kaitlin Sandeno (17:19.643)
Yeah, absolutely. Because like you said, like, I was moving the chains really well in high school, like everything was just smooth, great, awesome blessing. Like every time I swam, like, wow, record bow first, like, it was real. And it wasn’t like I wasn’t training hard, but it was it was easy. Like, and I say that, like after swimming six hours a day going to bed early and all the nutrition, but it things just was very smooth. And then you go to I went to SC as you know, kind of

the spotlight on me onto the swim team and shoulder injury right off the bat back injury right off the bat. And it was like, I’m fumble. You know, it was it was tough because it was very humbling. And look, swimming is hard. It’s boring. It’s a lot of hours in the pool. You’re like waterlogged all the time. And I was like, Do I even want to do this anymore? You know, like my shoulder hurts. I already went to the Olympics.

Mark Boyer (17:55.927)
Yeah, definitely.

Mark Boyer (18:12.427)
Mmm.

Kaitlin Sandeno (18:15.127)
Yeah, I’ve started off the season sitting on the bench and it was really frustrating. And on top of it all, it’s like I’m going to USC like my grades were terrible. I have no idea what I was getting into academically. I mean, you know, the freshman 15 I easily put on freshman like 2025. Like it was just like, Oh my god, it was like sack fumble interceptions. You know, it’s like, this is tough. Um, and then you know, that’s where that’s where

Mark Boyer (18:35.998)
Not good for a swimmer. Ha ha.

Kaitlin Sandeno (18:45.407)
you, I don’t know, you just make that decision. And I was like, Okay, I cannot have been at the political at 17 years old, you know, there’s way too much more to go. And it was that decision that like, I’m going to do this, I’m going to get through this. I’m going to set the goal to make another Olympics doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. But let’s not give up yet, you know, and it’s like, I can’t really explain what it’s like going to the Olympics still after all these years, it’s pretty hard to really articulate.

I mean, all I can say is once you go once you want to go again, you know, and it’s gonna be hard for my couch watch Paris, because every year like I wish I was there. I wish I was competing. It’s just there’s nothing like it to represent your country to be in that type of environment to be at the pinnacle of your sport. I mean, it’s so surreal. So getting a taste of that. And I was so young when I went to I didn’t even really know what I was doing. It was like my second ever international competition and the one

Mark Boyer (19:17.309)
Mmm, yeah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (19:23.335)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (19:40.083)
that I went to previously was pretty mild compared to. So it was almost like hearing headlights for my first Olympics. I’m like, if I went to the second Olympics, there’s so much more that I could do better. And so, it’s mind over matter. I truly believe that the body achieves what the mind believes. And it’s just like what you put in your head, your body’s gonna listen to. And I mean, it takes a village too. Like I say a lot that yes, I have.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (19:59.007)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (20:08.115)
for Olympic medals, but they’re not mine. There’s so many people that helped me get to that part. You know, I got to stand on the podium and I got to put it on. I did that work, but for my coaches, my trainers, my parents, my support staff, I mean, it truly does take a village and people just that helped me get through those obstacles. And it’s a mind game. It really is. I mean, there are a lot of great athletes out there that have all the physical attributes to be the best, but it really comes down to who mentally can handle it.

who mentally can get the job done and who can mentally do it when they do go through those fumbles and reception sacks, you know, who can get back up, you know, catch the ball and keep running. And so I feel like that’s something that I really appreciate about sports is how resilience it makes you and how determined it makes you and it makes you tough, you know, and I see that in

You know, I feel like I am very feminine, but I definitely have a very tough side to me. And that’s just from getting over those obstacles and pushing through.

Mark Boyer (21:11.978)
Yeah. So I’m curious and maybe there wasn’t, but I know for me, when times like that, you know, where you have hard times, you know, where there, where there people, you said, you said, as you talked, you know, takes a village or, you know, other people around you, they helped you get there. I’m curious in that hard time for you, um, was your mom and dad, I mean, there had to be some people that were like encouraging you along the way, right? Um, can you speak to that a little bit uh, during that hard time?

Kaitlin Sandeno (21:35.015)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So my head coach at USC was fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. You know, I, I felt like a total letdown. I was like, I was the top crew in the nation and I wasn’t doing anything for him. You know, wasn’t scoring a lot of points. Wasn’t winning NCAA titles. And we still did okay. You know, the fact that I was even at NCAAs with the year that I had, looking back on it was pretty impressive. Um, but he was very determined to, to get me to all the right doctors. Cause for a long time, nobody knew what was wrong with my back.

Mark Boyer (21:41.066)
Was he? Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (22:03.579)
And it was like a wild goose chase. And, you know, some coaches could have just wrote me off and be like, Oh, she’s probably faking it. Like she’s just trying to like, figure, you know, get out of the sport. And he was just very determined, like, we’ll go to every doctor in LA, every doctor at USC, um, and then finally just, he sent me home the summer between my freshmen and sophomore year, usually at USC, you stay and you train on the, um, summer league program or the summer league.

and go to school. And I took that summer off. I came home, came to Orange County, and my physical therapist in Orange County was phenomenal. I mean, he gave up his lunch breaks to take me to the pool. And it was basically, I started all over from scratch, swimming, just getting in and doing two laps, you know, and he literally gave up his lunch break to do that with me. So I would say, you know, my head coach, my trainer, or my physical therapist, Nick Theaters,

And then in my parents, I mean, just being coming back home and staying with them in Orange County and, you know, dealing with my mood swings and dealing with my emotions and dealing with me trying to sort out like, what is it that I even am trying, do I wanna keep doing this, you know? And just, they’re just always so positive and they were like never on me about swimming, you know, like they did the hard work they took me to practice, but ultimately they’re like, this is your decision, you know? It wasn’t them trying to live vicariously through me.

But just like my biggest supporters and something I always love to share in every single podcast. Sorry if you’ve ever heard me say this, but you know, my parents, I truly believe a lot of my success comes from my parents always giving me that sense of being unconditionally loved. Because I knew my worth wasn’t determined off of my first or my world record or breaking a record. I knew no matter what.

as long as I was showing up in the world as a good person, my parents were gonna be proud of me. And it wasn’t about my swimming stardom that was my worth or my love. So my parents unconditional love just always made me feel secure to just go out there and never be a fail. Because like if you mess up one race, it’s like whatever you have like a million more to go. And just having like that big picture like what life is all about. And my parents just always preach like, and be a nice girl, and be a nice girl. It was like have fun kick butt and be a nice girl. And I was like.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (24:13.512)
Hmm.

Kaitlin Sandeno (24:14.927)
I’m 40s now, I’m like on the trip, my mom’s like, have fun, be safe, be a nice girl. Like that’s like our family motto. So just having that sense of unconditional love from my parents is, I truly believe where a lot of my success came from.

Mark Boyer (24:15.162)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (24:23.205)
That’s great.

Mark Boyer (24:30.914)
I love that. That is so, I mean, yeah, I hope every parent with kids in sports hears that because that is so important. I try to do the same with my kids. And I think it’s so important for us as parents to love our kids for who they are, not for what we think they’re going to do to fulfill our sports fantasies or the things that didn’t happen for us as parents. And you see that

Kaitlin Sandeno (24:38.354)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (25:00.886)
What is wrong with these people? I mean, chill, take a, you know, just relax. I mean, you know, the kid is, you know, eight, 10 years old. I mean, just, I mean, what is wrong? You know, so that is so important for parents to hear. And the other thing I grab out of that, Kaitlin, I think is, and I would encourage anybody, you know, as we get older, we’re not involved in sports. We may not be coaching. I think coaching, I think coaches have the most influential impact on kids, more than even parents. I mean,

Kaitlin Sandeno (25:02.224)
video.

Kaitlin Sandeno (25:05.671)
You ready?

Kaitlin Sandeno (25:10.545)
Thank you.

Mark Boyer (25:29.13)
You spent so much time with your coaches at that time, obviously your SC coach and they had a huge impact. But, looking at our lives now, if we’re not in coaching or whatever, I think it’s what you said there, it’s really important for us to, if there’s somebody in our lives who needs some encouragement, it may not be sports, but we all need that encouraging word to keep us going and to help us direct our, I think it’s really important to have people like that in your lives.

Be that person today. If you’re listening to this podcast, find somebody you can encourage. I think that’s so important. That’s a great example of what she said.

Kaitlin Sandeno (26:01.339)
And I think it’s like, parents should parent and coaches should coach and there needs to be no overlap. You know, and that was another thing to like my parents didn’t know anything about something. So I wasn’t coming in after race, but oh, I you know, I think you went into that turn a little slow, you know, as I was in the sport longer, they obviously became more educated in the sport, but they weren’t like giving me these tips or like, you know, and

I think that would probably be challenging if you have children and you were in the sport like how to keep your mouth shut, but like learn how to do it, you know, because it’s just like, I think it, it just keeps everybody in their lane, you know, and it’s like, you know, my parents weren’t like, Oh, on that 500 freestyle, I think we’re fourth 100 could have been faster. I would have been like, well, you know, it wasn’t like that. It’s like, Hey, what do you want for dinner? Like, should we go get Dairy Queen? Like, it was just like

Mark Boyer (26:32.822)
Yeah, so important.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (26:44.315)
Hahaha.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (26:49.955)
nice.

Kaitlin Sandeno (26:50.983)
I just think that’s really important too. It’s like you have coaches for a reason. Um, obviously there are some unique situations and I see it like in football behind the time and you’re on the, you’re on the team with your dad coaching or whatnot or in youth sports. Um, but when you get to that level where there is a coach that’s not you, you don’t need to put in your two cents.

Mark Boyer (27:11.858)
Yeah, for sure.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (27:12.006)
Yeah. So, I want to talk a little bit about SC, your experience. So, you’re on the alumni board for House of Victory, right? The NIL wing of SC athletics, right? So, back when we were all playing our sports, there was no NIL, there was no name, image, likeness, making money legally on your name,

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (27:40.982)
It’s an incredible time to be able to monetize. Obviously as an athlete, you know, the amount of hours, like that’s your job. Like in college, like you’re not doing anything but school. And even sometimes that’s a stretch because you’re there, you’re on a full ride. You know, you’ve got to maintain your grades to be able to maintain your scholarship, but you really, you got to perform on the field or in the pool or, you know, on the court, whatever it may be. Do you have any thoughts on the current NIL ruling?

Is it a good thing? It doesn’t need to be ironed out a little bit more or is this something that can really benefit, you know, not just football, right? Which has got the most scholarships, but obviously kind of spreading the love around a little bit too, to maybe beach volleyball, swimming, whatever it may be.

Kaitlin Sandeno (28:10.547)
Thank you.

Kaitlin Sandeno (28:24.283)
Right. That’s a great question. And I’ll try not to get too long winded in this. First off, I had to give up my last year of eligibility at USC to take money. So I actually only competed for USC my freshman, sophomore and junior year. And looking back on my college.

accomplishments, I would say I only had one really great year at USC, my junior year after I was healed and recovered and finally won two NCAA titles and broke my first American record but like my freshman sophomore year was just like hurt, dead average.

So going into the 2004 Olympics fell between that summer of my junior year and my senior year and the opportunity for swimmers to make money very slim to none. And it has to be a sweet spot. And it’s always going into the Olympics. So I was faced with this decision, you know, like, do I take the money or do I take my full ride scholarship? It was hard. And it was sad for me to have been to even be in that situation. But those were the rules and I play by the rules. And

I took the opportunity, I struck when the iron was hot and I gave up my last year of eligibility. I signed with Nike, but part of my scholarship with Nike was look, I’m giving up this scholarship and it was my dad who was like, they should have to pay for that too. So thank you Nike for finishing my education for me. Having said that, NIL is here.

If you like it or you don’t like it, it doesn’t matter. It’s here. So I have my own personal thoughts on it and it doesn’t matter what they are because it’s already here and we either get on board or your programs are just all going to suffer. Um, as you asked Jason, does it need to be ironed out? Yes. I really think they open Pandora’s box. Um, and now they’re trying to backtrack a little bit, but it’s like, will you already did or allowing this? So now what are you going to do?

Kaitlin Sandeno (30:17.327)
So my role with House of Victory, I feel a sense of pride with because as I’ve been more removed from USC swimming, the programs change, the coaches have changed. So I haven’t really felt kind of that sorority with that team because the programs change so much. I don’t know the coaches, I don’t have a relationship, but I’m always a very strong and passionate Trojan. So being a part of House of Victory, I feel like I’m a part of the greater good for the school.

Mark Boyer (30:23.95)
Thanks for watching!

Kaitlin Sandeno (30:44.163)
and being with all these legends and all different sports, what we’re really trying to do is use our platform to educate people. Because a lot of people here, they think it’s a bad word or it’s dirty or it’s illegal. And so, you know, I…

have a lot of people in Newport Beach that are donors, but they’re like, no, I’m putting my money here. I would never do NIL. That’s just, that’s not right. It’s corrupt. It’s like, no, let me educate you more where your money’s going. You know, those really expensive season tickets you have to USC football. Do you want to sit in those seats as we’re good and winning? Or do you want all those top recruits to go to other schools that offer a more NIL and you’re sitting in your seats watching the whistle lose? You know, so it’s like, you either need to get on board with it and support.

Mark Boyer (31:19.278)
No.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (31:21.354)
Right.

Mark Boyer (31:23.635)
I guess.

Kaitlin Sandeno (31:27.023)
trying to bring the best recruits you can to your school, because you’re gonna lose athletes to the schools with more NIL opportunities. Do I agree with that? Doesn’t matter. You know, so it’s, it’s being a part of House of Victory and learning a lot. I feel like, you know, for me, I’m just a proud Trojan. And I love going to football games. And I love when we win. So I want us to have a strong NIL program. But yes, I do hope this goes to multiple sports. And I’ve bridged, you know, a nonprofit with

House of Victory that I hope to get swimmers involved in. There’s a lot of different interesting angles. And look, the swim team is not bringing in a lot of money for USC, I know that. But there’s still athletes that give so much time and so much energy. And we’re trying to build that program. It hasn’t been great for years. Right now they’re off to a great start. But it’s like, we need to spread that wealth out. And we need to spread it out to women’s sports too. But we also need to be realistic. What brings in the most support for USC, most money for USC?

football, now basketball is getting up there. So we really need to get behind those programs. I mean, I think Lincoln Riley has straight up said like, I will leave if we don’t have a strong NIL program because he can’t compete. When you have like SMU that’s just like shelling out the money to these kids, they’re gonna go there, even if they’re not that you know, not that strong of a you know, so it’s very others. It’s very complex. I’m learning a lot. It’s been I’m very proud to be a part of it. Like when I’m on these phone calls with like these USC legends and like I can’t believe I’m in this zoom meeting right now.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (32:43.35)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (32:56.526)
I’m gonna go to sleep now.

Kaitlin Sandeno (32:56.767)
my husband like dirty down the back. He’s like, Oh, you know, I was eight watching him score touchdowns. You know, it’s like it’s pretty cool. gotten on board with this. And imagine, you know, these athletes that were 1020 years before me, I mean, the it’s sports have changed so much college sports have changed so much. The only thing I’ll say about my personal beliefs is money’s distracting. And when you’re flashing this money around kids this age,

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (33:03.333)
Hahaha!

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (33:12.002)
Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Sandeno (33:25.603)
I just don’t want it to hurt the excitement and the pride about being on a team because when money is offered individually, we start getting more focused on me and my family instead of us and our unit and bleeding hard on gold. So how do you control that? And I think a lot of that’s up to the coaches, but I mean, everybody comes from such a different financial background that

It’s hard. It’s a challenge. How do you control that focus?

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (34:00.058)
I guess it must be kind of like the wild west now, right? Cause I mean, it’s, it’s like you said, it’s, it’s all new. Um, and then you get the transfer portal now that’s involved with, with a lot of these sports. So you’re getting team turnover, you know, 80 transfers from one team to another or multiple teams. It’s, it’s insane. It’s insane. So you’re hurting and helping programs. You’re able to reload like the SCs, the Alabama’s, you know, Michigan’s, whoever it may be, the big schools can reload really quickly.

Kaitlin Sandeno (34:02.52)
That’s you!

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (34:27.086)
But then you see a school like Washington goes to the national championship game this last year, loses a calendar board to, to Bama. And then I think like 60 people transferred out or whatever it was, they lost like their complete starting lineup. And so now they’re like not even supposed to be decent and they just got done with the national championship bid. So I don’t know. I thought I kind of agree with you. It’s got to be ironed out. It can’t just be free for all every, every year.

Kaitlin Sandeno (34:47.368)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (34:52.559)
It really is like you said the Wild West. It’s perfect. It’s just like yeah, it was too much too fast without a lot of thought behind it I think. I mean obviously there’s a lot of thought. It was like what’s the repercussion? How could we? Yeah, yeah, this works. Let’s see how this Trans Reporter looks.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (35:03.77)
Right. Let’s go with it first.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (35:13.09)
All right, so I want to get back to some memorable races. So obviously you’ve had quite a few in your career. I mean, you started off winning like right away, like you said, high school, you know, 1999, Winnipeg, right? Pan Am games, two gold medals. And then going to your first Olympics, still in high school, you medal. I mean, besides maybe the first race, like do you remember the first race? Like getting up there on that swim step and like,

before you’re diving in, before that sound, that alarm, or the whistle goes off, do you remember that? Like what are some memorable moments that you can give somebody out there to give a taste of what the Olympics is like?

Kaitlin Sandeno (35:46.867)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (35:53.295)
Yeah, I mean, I have like, I have this, it’s a joke, but it’s not really that funny. I have this, I don’t have the best memory, but my mom makes me feel better. She’s like, well, I think you have so many memories. You’ve had so many races and you’ve been to so many swim meets, I’m like, wait, have I been to this pool before? They’re like, yeah, that we were here two years ago. So it’s like, wow, the pools kind of smell and look the same and they’re eight lanes. I feel like.

Mark Boyer (36:19.727)
Same black line.

Kaitlin Sandeno (36:21.115)
Yeah, follow that black line. But going to my first Olympics, like a sensation that I won’t forget is, you know, swimming’s not that big in the States. And so there’s not that big of a turnout for the competitions.

So when I walked out my first loop this was in Sydney, Australia and so means their number one sport in their country. So to walk out and just to be amongst so many fans and to be swimming in such a huge like arena with spectators that they’re standing room only like sold out like the tickets to get that was a surreal feeling like I’ve never really gotten nervous before competitions.

And as we were paraded out for finals for like the top eight, I was like, who you know, it was like, wow, my legs kind of like gave out a little bit just seeing how many people were in the stands. And then it was like, I’m so used to being able to spot like my parents in the stands, because there’s just not that many people to weed through. And I’m like, I looked up there and I like there’s no way I can find my parents right now, you know, and it was like, where are they want to see them. So that’s like a feeling I’ll never forget. And then

Mark Boyer (37:18.615)
MWAH

Kaitlin Sandeno (37:24.911)
I had my first two races there. I finished fourth and sixth. So like just like miss being on the podium, but learned a lot. And then for my third race, I ended up getting bronze. And the competitor who won was actually American as well. And she got to I don’t know how she warmed her way into this, but she got to put on the song that she wanted after and it was girls just want to have fun.

And then in Sydney, they play like, we come from the land down under. So there was like those two songs and we were like walking around the pool. And I’ll just, anytime I hear that girls just wanna have fun song, like I’ll either text my mom or my mom will text me. And it just gets this like flashback of emotions of walking around the pool with that metal and going through like the media and like waving up to the fans, having the American flag. So it’s like that song is a trigger for me, you know, either one of those songs. So those are like some big takeaways.

Mark Boyer (38:05.64)
Hehehe

Kaitlin Sandeno (38:19.607)
Um, and it’s just funny. It’s like, you know, silly, silly little things that just make you take you right back there. Um, and you know, obviously the races, there’s so much like technical talk for them, but just getting your hand on the wall and seeing that you want a medal. It’s pretty surreal. Um, and even the ones that I didn’t, um, get a medal at those games, it was like, wow, I’m 17 and I’m in the finals, you know, and, and

Mark Boyer (38:43.932)
Wow, amazing.

Kaitlin Sandeno (38:45.235)
of my races to which was like something pretty, pretty cool to say. But you know, it’s just the society that we live in like come home with a medal or you know, what are you coming home with, you know, so having to wrap your mind around that too, and keeping perspective and not letting the media get into your mind like, oh, like, you know, why not a gold or why didn’t you win a medal and everything, you know, and trying to keep that mentality locked in and just stay grounded with all that.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (39:09.02)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (39:16.13)
Caleb, what was your favorite stroke? It looks like you were freestylist, you also butterfly. Those are two like, I mean, which one do you like more?

Kaitlin Sandeno (39:22.031)
Yeah, it’s a tough call because you know, I specialize in individual medley. So that’s all four strokes. But yeah, it would come down to freestyle and butterfly for my best of the four. You know, I think butterfly is a really beautiful stroke. And my mom says my butterfly is really pretty. So I have my biggest cheerleader. And I love the challenge of this.

Mark Boyer (39:34.538)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (39:47.213)
Oh, moms, oh moms.

Kaitlin Sandeno (39:50.751)
where you know, I feel like it you know, it’s known to be the toughest stroke. And so I kind of pride myself on that. And I saw the 200 butterflies. So it was the longest of it. I saw like the three most ruling races. So I definitely have some street cred for that or swim cred if you want to say. But freestyle is just it’s natural, you know, it’s a very natural stroke. There’s a lot that goes into it to make it a very strong stroke.

I’m super hyper mobile, so I’m able to get a really strong high vertical catch really early in my stroke, which is desirable. And it was pretty easy for me to do that just with my body type and my flexibility with my strength. And I’m very teachable. That’s what I had some technique coaches like, I’ll tell you to do something and you do it. And in my mind, I’m like, well, yeah, but now I do some personal coaching. I’m like, why aren’t you doing what I’m telling you? So I get what he’s saying now. You know, I’m like,

Some people have that connection, mind, body, control, and some people don’t. And so I was just really blessed to have a natural feel for the water and just to get it, just to have the motor skills to do it. So again, very long-winded answer for you, Mark, but I would probably say butterfly would be my favorite. Yeah, factual straight loads, and then I would be tan.

Mark Boyer (41:01.038)
Motorfly? Yeah. Yeah, it’s a beauty. It is it.

Mark Boyer (41:07.887)
Yeah. So, so success, you know this, right? So in part of the move, the change, we talk about the little small details and you got to get really good at the small things to have success on the Lord. So I just curious as a swimmer, you know, give us an example of something like you had to work on that was really tiny. Okay, something small might have been angle of a foot or a kick, something that really as a swimmer has to do to get real to add that extra, you know,

just that extra burst to get a better time or whatever. Give us an example of some small things you had to focus on.

Kaitlin Sandeno (41:43.687)
That’s a great question. I mean, everything is so minute and you know, it comes down to one 100th of a second in the end. I would say timing with breathing is really, really important for you know, freestyle butterfly and brushstroke. A lot of times, let’s just take freestyle has the most natural and known sport or stroke but just you know, where you take that breath, how you take that breath over your shoulder and your arms not covering your head and your head, you know, in line with your body. So just making sure that the timing of your breath is a really big but

thing to work on and for most elite swimmers, they bilateral breathe on both sides but you’re naturally going to be more comfortable to one side to another. So making sure that there’s no hitch or hesitation when you go to your non-dominant side. So I would have a tendency to have a little bit of a lag when I go to my left side because it wasn’t as natural for me to get to it. So ironing out with my technique coach was something that we worked out a lot in college because I swam the events where

Mark Boyer (42:35.582)
Interesting.

Kaitlin Sandeno (42:41.851)
you have enough time to see where you are. So when you’re breathing to both sides, you can make sure that you’re where you should be in the race and there’s nobody ahead of you that you aren’t seeing underwater and just keeping that balance of your stroke. So making sure there’s no hesitation or hitch when you’re going to your side that’s not as comfortable.

Mark Boyer (42:56.97)
Yeah. Great example. Yeah. So important, right? To be that elite athlete, to get there. Sometimes young athletes think, I just got to jump in and swim as fast as I can. I mean, you know, that’s, that’s a silly example, but, but to be a, to be an Olympic swimmer, they’re so intricate, the, the details of what you did and what you, uh, you know, what you had to work on and make comfortable things that weren’t comfortable that you had to make them part of your, you know, just

Kaitlin Sandeno (43:07.827)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (43:15.921)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (43:24.402)
Make them more comfortable so you could just, you know, naturally do it, not have to think about it, right? I mean, that’s part of that whole thing. It’s really important. I want to ask you about Okay, so Jason I actually were looking at some old video YouTube of your in 2004 Summer Olympics in Greece you were part of you know you had

You won three more gold medals, a silver medal and a 400 meter individual medley, a bronze medal on the 400 meter freestyle, and a gold medal in the four by 200 meter freestyle relay. And we just watched that. That was an amazing race. And you guys, you guys actually love this. You actually long time East German record, right? You beat them by over two seconds, which was incredible world record. I mean, it had to be amazing to be a part of that.

Kaitlin Sandeno (44:04.275)
Thank you.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (44:07.734)
dominated.

Mark Boyer (44:17.738)
I guess my bigger question is like mentally you jump in, you’re the fourth leg of that relay. And you guys are on a pace to do, you know, it’s like what’s going through your mind as you, you know, as you, as that third swimmer’s coming, I don’t remember who was the third, who was the third? As she was, Piper was so, she was coming to you. What’s going on in your mind is you’re on that stand and you’re the last one.

Kaitlin Sandeno (44:23.359)
I’m going to go ahead and turn it off.

Kaitlin Sandeno (44:34.267)
Carly Piper. That was funny, I was like, is that right?

Kaitlin Sandeno (44:41.419)
Yeah. Yeah, it was a it’s interesting too, because actually that day I swam the 200 butterfly like sorry, because

Mark Boyer (44:42.754)
You remember? Or does it all go blank?

Mark Boyer (45:01.346)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (45:01.407)
Can you guys hear that? It’s so loud right now. You guys can edit. Okay. All right. So that so as that day was an interesting day for me because I swam the 200 butterfly before that relay and the tuner butterfly is a very taxing hard race. And I was actually the top seed going into that for finals and I wasn’t used to that. I wasn’t ready for that. It was I was kind of shocked of it. And I ended up getting a best time but I finished fourth.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (45:03.486)
Yeah, yeah, it’s all good. It’s all good.

Mark Boyer (45:05.026)
We’re good.

Mark Boyer (45:20.694)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (45:31.299)
And so I got out of the pool and I was pretty pissed. I was like, oh man, like I was fired up and I didn’t have much time between the 200 butterfly and the 400 IM. And so I was lucky that my college coach was also the Olympic coach. So he was there, Coach Schubert came up to me and he was just like, just get it out of your head, swim it out.

Mark Boyer (45:35.348)
Yeah, you.

Kaitlin Sandeno (45:55.291)
And he was like, he’s like, I like when you have a bad swim. I was like, why? And it wasn’t even a bad swim. Like I still want the best time. He’s like, because you get more fired up for your next one. And I was like, and so he’s like channel that like, put that energy towards this next race. And, um, I had never been on an international relay before, but I had this having, and I had qualified, I had done the work to be on that relay team, but it was new for me. Um,

Mark Boyer (46:05.889)
Commissioned by the…

Kaitlin Sandeno (46:21.259)
And not only was I going to be on this relay team, but they were like, I think it was the day of or the night before they’re like, and you’re going to be the anchor. And I was like, wow, like, what, like, what an honor, you know, and then I was also like, Are you sure about this? You know, like, I’ve never really done relay exchanges, like, I just don’t have a lot of relay experience, because I was a distance swimmer. And that’s considered more of a mid distance to a sprint race. And so I remember being behind the blocks.

Mark Boyer (46:28.615)
Oh man, what?

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (46:30.685)
Big job.

Kaitlin Sandeno (46:49.827)
and being like really fired up when they announce your team to like, you know, we raised our hands together. And I’m out there with just total legends with Natalie Coughlin, who’s just like, you know, before Katie Ledecky, the most decorated American swimmer, and she’s just so cool, calm and confident, and just a great leader. And she’s just very poised. And, you know, she told us her game plan. And she said, you know, I’m gonna go out a little bit slow and controlled, but I’ll bring it back. And don’t get nervous. I’m like, Oh, gosh, just give me a lead, you know, and

But then I just like sat down like because I was still getting that last race out of me and everybody’s behind the blocks like jumping up and down. I was just like chilling like on the ground like taking it all in. Because I was fourth I had the time and then Natalie did exactly what she said like she like dove in and she was like kind of like behind and I was like, let’s go. And she picked it up and just started just dominating her leg and then it just we just kept building off of that building off that then yeah, it was on the block and

getting ready to go off the blocks and I was like, Oh my gosh, here we go. And the thought crossed my mind, like don’t fall start don’t DQ like you have a gold medal on a silver platter right now you know and I joke that I probably had like the slowest relay exchange of like all of Olympic history just because I was I am not gonna dance this you know.

Mark Boyer (47:49.57)
Thank you.

Mark Boyer (47:53.89)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (48:03.01)
Yeah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (48:05.725)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (48:09.563)
It’s a hard task because you go in and you have to control your energy and your nerves and your excitement. It’s really easy to go in and just spin your wheels and just not be able to bring it home. So really having to like rain in that energy and just stick to the race plan of like not overexerting yourself just because you’re so excited. So I felt really strong and in control. And, you know, I knew that we I knew that we had the gold medal on a silver platter unless you know, I couldn’t finish.

But I didn’t really know the world record time. I’m not a big times person. I’m not a big record person. Somebody just kind of mentioned it to me before we race like, Oh, it’d be awesome if you guys broke that record. I’m like, what record? You know, like, it just was the way that registered. It’s just like, let’s do a best time. Let’s win this thing, you know. And then when I was coming home, I saw like the excitement of the crowd because as you’re breathing, you’re like looking over my

Mark Boyer (48:43.071)
Now.

Kaitlin Sandeno (49:01.951)
coaches are going wild. And I felt like I could see the arena kind of standing up. And I’m like, well, this gotta be a good sign, you know, or maybe there’s a lot of people, sometimes people don’t really root for the Americans when you’re not in America. So you know, what is he doing? And we got to the wall and I looked up and I was like USA first and we’re just going crazy. And then it said like WR and WR. Hopefully that’s not you in Greek, you know. And so I remember because like,

Mark Boyer (49:12.462)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (49:26.281)
Yeah.

Hahaha.

Kaitlin Sandeno (49:31.959)
my teammates are on the ledge of the pool. So they’re pretty high up for me and I’m down low and they’re all celebrating and I’m just like, Natalie, is that a world record? And she’s like, yes. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, and it was just real celebration. But one of the coolest things about that to obviously breaking the world record, but like, going back to what you said, Mark, we broke the oldest world record in the history books. And it was the last East German women’s record.

Mark Boyer (49:46.789)
That’s great.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (50:00.55)
Hmm.

Kaitlin Sandeno (50:01.447)
stood. And so wiping that from the history books was just so historic and legendary that I felt like we had a lot of respect from our competitors like the Australians came over to us the Japanese came over to us like we are on the cover of like every newspaper back in the States like last East German record that is known to be a doping record but they couldn’t get it off the books because it wasn’t broken. Don’t ask me about that.

Mark Boyer (50:08.078)
Cheers.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (50:26.878)
Wow.

Kaitlin Sandeno (50:29.075)
So we broke it to the day of being set 17 years previously. So that was just, I mean, to win the gold, to break a world record, but to break that world record was just, it was so special and just so much pride, like so much pride went into that. And I had never, you know, never broken a world record, never broke a world record again, but to then be on the podium when the flag goes up and was standing, it’s crazy because when you get to the Olympics, you guys are, we’re a team.

Mark Boyer (50:34.318)
Hmm.

Mark Boyer (50:45.882)
Yeah. Amazing.

Kaitlin Sandeno (50:58.963)
But when I was swimming in college or I was swimming, like just nationally, like those are girls I race against, you know, I race against Natalie, I race against Dana, I race against Carly. But then here we are compiling this relay that just did this like iconic moment in the sport. So it’s just kind of interesting, you know, how the sport develops throughout the seasons. And I mean, Natalie went to Cal Berkeley and we grew up, she’s NorCal, I’m so Cal, I mean, I had to race that girl all the time. And I was like, quite frankly, I don’t like this girl. And then like, as we got older, I was like, I have so much-

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (51:06.093)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Boyer (51:23.927)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (51:28.181)
I know.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (51:28.302)
I’m not gonna lie.

Kaitlin Sandeno (51:29.623)
We became, you know, good friends, still in touch today, and still like to share that moment that we have as her at the Beard Off and me as the anchor. That’s just something that we’ll, we will just always have that bond for the rest of our life.

Mark Boyer (51:36.056)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (51:42.186)
Yeah, yeah. Amazing race. Congratulations. That was really fun to watch.

Kaitlin Sandeno (51:47.986)
Thank you so much.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (51:50.766)
I remember watching live because I love watching Olympic swimming. I know nothing about swimming. I raced a little bit as a kid at Newport Harbor High School, not when I was in high school, but they have the youth swimming there. Yeah, so it was super fun, but it’s incredible to watch. You guys as an athlete, it’s just a different world.

Kaitlin Sandeno (52:00.831)
Yeah! Yeah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (52:16.358)
most of the rest of the sports, right? You’re, you’re either in the water or you’re, you’re on a court or a field or something like that. Like being able to swim at that speed for that amount of time, especially like you as a longer distance swimmer and being able to do sprints as well. Cause you did some short course, you want a bunch of metals as well in short course. So you can do it, but it’s incredible. It’s, it’s really incredible to watch. So kudos to you for being able to do that. It’s incredible.

Kaitlin Sandeno (52:39.997)
here. There’s a joke within like the swimming community. They’re like, we would love to see the Olympics. But then they just put in like Joe blow from down the street and have them and really see how much faster an Olympic athlete is like either around the track or in the pool and just put some like average guy off the street and put them in the pool and see the difference. I was like, Oh, gosh, that would be like an awesome reality show or something.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (52:47.889)
You know?

Mark Boyer (52:59.062)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (53:02.782)
Yeah, that would be funny.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (53:03.938)
But so I have a, I have a sad, quick story relating to swimming. Um, so in college, um, I had back surgery from football and so I was doing my rehab while the team was out at spring ball practice. So our, our swimming pool, our competitive pool is behind the football field and of our practice field. So like for my rehab from back surgery, the first thing I could do was swim. Like that was the first thing they wanted me to do is to go in and get in the pool.

Kaitlin Sandeno (53:26.559)
Okay. Yeah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (53:29.866)
Like instead of being out on the field, like, you know, stretching or doing core work, like after I got approved to do start physical activity, like, Hey, get in the pool. I want you to swim, you know, X amount of laps, you know, and you start off, you know, in breaststroke or whatever you want to do. But as I had to progress towards freestyle, like the, after like a lap or two, like I was dizzy, like I was dizzy. It’s like, it’s so much harder than people realize. And I wasn’t like trying to go super fast or anything. And obviously I’m not in, in shape at that point either, but

Kaitlin Sandeno (53:40.575)
Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin Sandeno (53:51.123)
Oh

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (53:59.87)
It’s incredible. Like the amount of capacity, like lung capacity or just stamina you have to have to even swim a few laps well is remarkable.

Kaitlin Sandeno (54:11.503)
It’s pretty surreal. So I took two professional hockey players and a MMA fighter. And I think those two sports, I mean, the conditioning and the shape that you have to be in, I took them to a pool. They asked me to take them for a swim workout. They were toasted after two laps. Like, I’m not joking, like, toasted. And I was like, and I obviously, I know that about our sport.

Mark Boyer (54:30.237)
Yeah

Kaitlin Sandeno (54:34.727)
But then when you compare it to athletes in shape, professional hockey players, professional MMA, and I’m just like, whoa, it’s so different. And that’s what I try to explain to people. I can swim all day, but I can’t run all day. And runners can run all day, but they can’t swim all day. And it’s like, and I can swim easy, and a lot of people can’t swim easy. And people are like, oh, do you still swim?

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (54:54.629)
Hmm?

Kaitlin Sandeno (54:55.295)
for a workout. I was like, No, because I have to push myself so hard because I’m so efficient. I don’t really bring calories because I can do this easily. Easily, you know, so it is a very unique sport. The cardio of it is, you know, holding your breath, catching your breath and in a full body workout for sure. And it’s funny too, because like after I was out of sports, or out of swimming,

and trying just to stay in shape, I had to remind myself that I don’t have to hold my breath. Like, hey, just breathe. Like, I’m so used to holding my breath and working out. So I’m like at the gym like, oh, breathe. No.

Mark Boyer (55:27.032)
Yeah, yeah, good question.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (55:32.43)
Do you think all your, so not all your setbacks, but as athletes, we all have setbacks. You’ve had your fair share of setbacks. We’ve talked about a few. Speak a little bit to going and trying to attain that third Olympic Games 2008, right? Then you decided to retire after that. Mentally, physically, how are you feeling at that point? Was it a weird feeling? Hey, I think it’s time to hang it up. What was going through your mind?

Kaitlin Sandeno (55:52.829)
Right.

Kaitlin Sandeno (56:02.151)
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I always thought I would just be done after USC. So it’s on my four years and I would be done. I liked the sport, but there was a lot that I didn’t love and I felt like the injury took a lot out of me.

And I just figured, you know, I’ll get my degree and I’ll be done. But then when I signed with Nike, it was a four and a half year contract. And I was like, okay, well, you know, I’ll just keep going. And this is my job. But then it was, um, it was interesting at that time, cause there wasn’t a lot of places for women to continue their swimming career. So I didn’t really know where to go train. Um, there wasn’t a lot of options. So, um, I ended up packing up and moving to Ann Arbor, Michigan, and I swam on the elite post-grad team there.

And that was a team that was Michael Phelps and his coach. So Bob Newman was the head coach at the men’s Michigan team. And then he started a post-grad team that was like all men on the national team. And so I basically had to ask permission to come train there because he didn’t train women. But I didn’t have really anybody that was the right training environment for me or training partners. But Phelps and I swam all the same events. And then two of my buddies from USC were going there. I had already been in Ann Arbor for a couple of trips I knew was a great town.

I was like, it’s time to get a little uncomfortable and move outside of the Southern California bubble. So I moved to Ann Arbor, Michigan, and that rocked my world, having winters and being away from home and new friends too, because I wasn’t going to school there. I was just with a bunch of guys and it was like, okay, how do I make friends? How do I make friends outside of swimming? You know, I was living by myself. It was just, it was an interesting time of my life. I feel like I grew up a lot as a woman and just matured a lot being out there.

I had never trained so hard in my life, but I also had never really just swam before. So that was weird too, and I didn’t really love that. I always had a different distraction of school or being involved in school. I always had something else going on, but I was just swimming. I was a professional athlete, so I was traveling and I was doing appearances and photo shoots and the requirements that go with that.

Kaitlin Sandeno (58:08.435)
But it was hard. I was sick a lot out there with the allergies and the environment and with my allergies and just asthma. And I felt like my body didn’t recover as well. I think I, like I knew I was gonna have to train hard, but you definitely have to do some things differently between men and women. And I wasn’t doing anything really different than the guys. I did everything that they did. And I just felt like I was hurt a lot, sick a lot, tired a lot.

I felt like my body was starting to put on weight more. And I just, I kind of ebbed and flowed my whole time there. Just one good meat, not a good meat, good meat, not a good meat. And I was just starting to not.

love it as much. I knew for sure I wanted to be done in oh eight. I knew as soon as I started going to swim meets and I wasn’t excited to be at swim meets that it was time to be done because that’s why I love swimming. I love to race. And then I found myself getting to meets and just been like, when is this going to be over, you know, and I just wasn’t having the success I was having younger I wasn’t rebounding as fast. I wasn’t having as much fun. The guys on my team are great. They’re awesome. We have like so many laughs and memories. And it was

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (58:44.22)
Mm.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (58:54.25)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (59:12.401)
pretty impressive group that we had. But I don’t know, I just was ready for the next chapter and then I had a really good 2007 and things were starting to look better for 2008. And then about, I think it was like two months before the Olympic trials, I had blew out my knee and then two weeks before Olympic trials I had a severe upper respiratory infection. And I was like, eh, I make this.

Mark Boyer (59:32.961)
Oh gosh.

Kaitlin Sandeno (59:33.759)
about it. So my mom was in town and she’s like, you know, we could just pack up and move you home. And that’s that I’m like, No, I want to go to like my last meet. I want to go to my last lip of trials. I want to go out on my terms and race one more time. And so I went to trials. Yeah, you know, and she said that from a very loving place. I think we are all just very realistic. We’re like, Oh, this isn’t gonna this isn’t gonna happen. The hat trick’s not in store. And I was realistic about that. But I still just wanted to just go one more like it was kind of like the last hurrah.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (59:46.626)
Good for you.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:00:03.335)
And I felt like an obligation to Nike. They were so good to me. They’re so good to my family. Like we had the most incredible experience together and I wanted to go represent them there. And yeah, I mean, just wasn’t in the cards but it was kind of crazy. Like I kept like live to fight another day at the meet. Like I thought I’d be done and I qualified. I was like, oh, I thought I’d be done. I was like planning my retirement party and like just wanted to go grab a beer. And everyone was like, oh, Kayla, you made finals. I was like, oh my gosh. You know.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:00:21.804)
I’m sorry.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:00:27.399)
Hahaha

Mark Boyer (01:00:27.862)
You’re not my friend.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:00:29.075)
super supportive and really kind like if anybody can do it, Kaitlin, you can do it. You’re such a racer. And I really appreciated that. But I was also like, it’s just I was like still on antibiotics. Like it was just not gonna happen. So yeah, like my best place at the Olympic trials was eighth and you have to be either top two for an individual or top six for a relay. And I remember getting out of the pool and just I felt like I just felt the weight of my shoulders just off.

in a it was very bittersweet. I was like just sat in the water. I was actually in the water with Natalie Coughlin and it’s like, oh, I’m gonna miss it. She’s like, I’m gonna miss you. I’m like, I’m gonna miss you too. Like it was just a very surreal moment. And then I remember leaving and I got like a standing Oh, and I was like, for me, like, I just, you know, miss the Olympic team. And people knew that was my last race. And then NBC pulled me aside and did an interview. And that was pretty surreal too. And it was very emotional. But it was like emotions of like relief.

Mark Boyer (01:01:21.506)
Bye.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:01:25.667)
sad, bummed, excited, like just all the emotions that you can imagine and that was it. That was the end of the career. So I was hoping for a third Olympics, but third Olympic trials was pretty impressive and everything that I had kind of just gone through and experienced. I think that makes my story relatable. I feel like when you hear from billionaires or world record holders or people that have achieved these amazing…

feats, they just don’t seem relatable. But I feel like with all the ups and downs that I had in my career, and that, you know, I, it didn’t go perfectly for me, like that’s life, like that’s, that’s relatable. You know, I always joke, like, Phelps was so talented, like, you could just like push that guy in the pool, and he would break a world record, you know, and like, that’s not relatable. He is just on another planet of a specimen as an athlete.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:02:12.363)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:02:20.427)
And, you know, I obviously I know what I have accomplished is pretty amazing. And not a lot of people can say that, but I also feel like my, my career, my path was, is relatable.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:02:32.755)
Absolutely.

Mark Boyer (01:02:34.274)
That’s for sure. I mean, I think that transition for anybody who’s had success like you, that sounds like it was, uh, easier maybe, but, you know, again, I’m sure later after your career was over, as you’re watching somebody swim, you’re probably like, gosh, I can still do that. I could probably beat them or something like that. You know what I mean? I don’t know. Maybe that didn’t happen to you. I know for me and my career after eight years in the NFL, I was.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:02:50.958)
Hehe hehehehehe

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:02:51.323)
Yeah!

Mark Boyer (01:02:58.698)
I was surprised how hard it was to transition out. I didn’t realize how much my identity had been in sports. Like I was, and I was a guy preaching about it, like, hey, you know, I know it’s gonna end blah, blah. And then all of a sudden it was like reality hit. It was like, whoa, now who am I? Now what am I gonna do? And I’m sure you had probably some of that in there, but it sounds like you were pretty level-headed and just knew it was time to roll and to move on. That’s great.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:03:09.36)
Yeah.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:03:15.678)
Right.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:03:24.899)
Yeah, I was definitely okay with like giving it up. And I think, you know, ever since then, it’s been different seasons of my life where, you know, I do find myself in my identity of sports, you know, coming into an Olympic year, I try to use that to my advantage to get more speaking engagements, more appearances, I have more opportunities with USA swimming. And then, you know, again, you strike when the iron’s hot, and then so means that

popular every four years. And then it kind of disappears. And then I find myself in these unique, different career opportunities. But it’s funny what you say about your physique. It’s like, I look back towards the end of my career, I was like, gosh, I feel better today than I did then. My nutrition is better. My sleep is better. My body feels better. I obviously don’t. I know realistically, I couldn’t put in the work that I would need to be an elite athlete. But I just feel better all around. And I think.

that’s just age, that’s maturity, that’s technology. That’s, you know, my husband being a nutritionist, like it, there’s so many different components of that. But there’s like some days, you know, in my workout class, I tend to get like really competitive. I’m like, Yeah, I still got it. I still got it. I’m sure you do. He’s like, I know you’re the most competitive one in your spin class. I’m like, Yeah, I won today. He’s like, I know you did.

Mark Boyer (01:04:32.02)
haha

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:04:39.333)
Hahaha

Mark Boyer (01:04:40.582)
That’s good. That’s funny. Well, your husband, he was an athlete, right? Football, as I understand, so he was pretty successful too. You guys probably compete pretty well together.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:04:52.792)
Yeah. Yeah, he’s a total stud. He’s so like any sport he does. He’s so talented and still to this day and he’s like a shape of his life right now too. And yeah, we have a we have friendly competitions, I guess you could say but we both enjoy completely different exercises and different workouts. And for a while I was working and I was like, I don’t know. What’s up?

Mark Boyer (01:04:58.636)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (01:05:06.806)
Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Mark Boyer (01:05:14.089)
So will he get in the pool with you? Will he get in there and challenge you and like talk trash about pools?

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:05:19.767)
Okay, that is a great question because everybody’s like, Oh, do you still swim? I was like, No, but my husband loves swimming. So Pete always wants to go swim. He’s like, Come with me, come with me. Like, no, he’s like, here I am. I thought I married this Olympic swimmer, we could do all these swim workouts together. And you never want to come with me. I’ve been people are always like, what’s it like swimming with your wife is like it’s very humbling. And he’s like, I’ll be in fins, snorkel, everything. And she’s in no fins, no snorkel goes right past me. We, we go to

Mark Boyer (01:05:27.779)
Oh, he does.

Mark Boyer (01:05:34.493)
Come on, show me some.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:05:46.283)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (01:05:46.866)
I’m sorry.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:05:47.791)
We go we swim just out the ocean and we’ll go to shore for dinner And I was like, oh Pete we saw you out there with your fins and your wife without it Just totally kicking your butt. He’s like, yeah, you should try You know, like he’s very cool about it He always gives him grief about it. They’re like, yeah, we saw your fins and she wasn’t wearing him and she was way ahead of you We all have our strikes

Mark Boyer (01:05:59.031)
That was great fun.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:06:06.684)
Hahaha

Mark Boyer (01:06:08.453)
It’s humbling for a husband. That’s great. That’s good.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:06:11.058)
Yeah, that’s good. So, all right. So last question here for you before we let you go. But so what’s the what in your opinion, what’s the future of swimming look like maybe technological advancements, competitiveness in the global scale, TV rights deals? I mean, it seems like me you were just down in Chile, right? A few months ago for the Pan Am Games. Is that what it was? So what?

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:06:34.395)
Yeah, Pan Am games and then Paraplegia.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:06:38.098)
Yeah. So what does that look like? What’s the future of swimming? Is it bright? Are you excited to be a part of it? What is the swimming landscape like?

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:06:45.839)
Yeah, so, you know, I feel like with anything technology is always evolving. First of all, I mean, it comes down to 1100 to the second and how aerodynamic you can be through the water. So the technology of suits, goggles, caps, how you get off the block, they’ve changed the blocks, the starting blocks, the backstroke starts. So that keeps evolving. You know, I think the sport of swimming is interesting. Like I said, it’s popular every four years, but it just really doesn’t get a lot of a lot of love in between that time.

Um, I think, you know, I see it a lot when I read like the swim comments, like now that we don’t have Phelps like in our sphere in the pool, I don’t think we have as much interest as we’ve had in the past. I mean, it’s been around for so many years. Um, you know, you have dominant stars like Katie Ledecky and Karen, Caleb Dressel that we’re getting a lot of attention the last Olympics, but Phelps was on another level and he did so much for our sport and we haven’t seen another athlete like that since.

in that sense. And that’s not to dilute Katie Ledecky because she’s incredible in what she’s accomplished. But you know, she’s a quieter gal. She’s a little bit more soft spoken, like she’s not like in that kind of public eye that felps was. Caleb Dressel has done a lot for this sport. But you know, the last couple years, he hasn’t been as dominant, he took a little bit of a step back from the sport. But he’s making the little surgeons right now. So it’ll be interesting, you know, our viewership.

kind of teeters. We are moving to a much larger capacity, audience capacity for the Olympic trials that I’m really excited to be the live MC. Our trials will be inside of the Indianapolis Colts stadium. So that’ll be really sort of our sport.

Mark Boyer (01:08:23.203)
Nice.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:08:25.367)
But you know, ticket prices had to go up. Now people are complaining about the ticket prices. So there’s just, you can never please everybody. You know, Team USA is strong, our women’s team specifically. So that’ll be really fun to watch in Paris. Not to say that our men aren’t, but our women have just been really dominant recently. Our men are a little bit younger and we kind of have some holes in our roster compared to against the world. So it’ll be interesting to see how Paris goes. And

You know, as an American, I think everybody’s really excited to have the U.S. and to have the games on U.S. soil in twenty eight. So that would be pretty special, especially for us in Orange County that we’ll have it here in our backyard. So it’ll be interesting. I stay involved in a capacity that’s more of a commentator or an emcee or a host. I don’t get into as much as like the technical side. And that just wasn’t me as a swimmer. And.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:09:05.147)
Yeah.

Mark Boyer (01:09:06.475)
That’s great.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:09:19.035)
I’m not as much of a swim nerd as some of the people out there. And I follow the swimmers as I go to events and get to interview the athletes as they make the team. But there’s always some surprises, some young up and comer. And that’s always really fun and really special to see. You’ll see that on the women’s side a little bit more than the men, because I think women have that success at younger ages more typically than the men do. So it’s going to be an interesting next few months in our swimming world and just moving forward. I mean.

going back to college is kind of interesting because so many international swimmers come and train in the States. So we’re training them and then we race them internationally. So there’s always been a little bit of that controversy of that like we train so many foreign swimmers here on US soil, we go to international meets and you know, we’re not as dominant as we used to be like there used to be like no question like Team USA always the best and

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:09:56.214)
Hmm. Huh.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:10:14.183)
There’s definitely more competition that I’m seeing now than I had back in our day. I mean, we always had somebody special to race against, but it wasn’t like a country was like challenging us for the medal count like they are now.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:10:30.968)
Hmm. Hahaha.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:10:33.262)
That’s no, it just seems like, I mean, it seems like people like you and Natalie, uh, Amanda, I mean, there’s been so many great, uh, women swimmers, but also again, like Michael Phelps and, uh, Ryan Lochte and all just, there’s so many world-class athletes. Um, all of you have pushed swimming on the, on the national, but international stage as well where all of those people are like, I want to do what they’re doing. Like I want to come to the U S I want to train with the best coaches, best technology.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:10:57.756)
Yeah. Yep. Yes. Yep.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:11:00.758)
That’s why this is the world’s greatest country, in my opinion, right? Like business wants to come in sports athletes from all over the world want to come in. They want to play in our leagues. They, you know, it’s, it’s such a wonderful place to be. So, um, but all thanks to people like you, Kaitlin, that, that have kind of pushed the sport and, uh, I want to give back to, to the next generation as well.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:11:03.955)
Yep.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:11:22.539)
Yeah, yeah, and I think too, like, which I am a big supporter of and get our education to get the education opportunity. So if you can do your sport and get the education, that’s pretty special to get that in the United States.

Jason Jacobi, CFP® (01:12:55.494)
Awesome. Well, thanks so much. And Mark and I really appreciate you being on and, uh, can’t wait to see what you do in the future. Thanks so much.

Mark Boyer (01:13:01.654)
Yeah. Thank you, Kaitlin God bless. Thank you.

Kaitlin Sandeno (01:13:02.375)
Thanks guys, it was so fun. Yeah, you too, thank you.